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Rage now, Learn later, and                                                                                                                                                                                           250 letters is really the cap for a title? Empty Rage now, Learn later, and 250 letters is really the cap for a title?

Post by InteroVegas on 2011-08-26, 17:26

Spoiler:
I want to own up to, clarify and explain the raging done by me, Aznsin and sometimes Kai-Wario (cough cough matt you drive him insane).

Lets first establish I suck at teaching people LoL, ok established.

I go crazy when someone feeds or does something like builds nashors tooth on a malzahar not nearly as much because of the loss so much as the disappointment. If we lose a game because someone dc'd thats powerofpoo, but when we lose games, it just means we have more practice to be done (for those who like getting better at LoL). Learning how to handle matchups, counter jungle, gauging when I can and can not win a duel, etc. That is fine, that is the nature of improving. But I can't stand stupidity, no one does this, but for example: initiating into a bush with all 5 enemy team members, or saying "lets do dragon" when everyone is level 16 and 17 and there are towers that could be pushed, or when someone takes the blue buff for no reason, and ESPECIALLY when people don't take obviously correct advice. Yes, I am intolerant, I don't have the patience for small mistakes, and I don't have patience for mistakes that I make either, that is the truth. But it infuriates me when someones builds an awful item, like attack speed on AP caster (nashors + malzahar) and are told and explained why the item is awful, or the strategy, or the build, or the plan, and continue with it. When they go right back to playing as if nothing had ever been said to them. I can't have patience for blatant ignorance, trolling (when something is fail troll) and obliviousness. And I own up to the fact that I probably never will. But when Kai-Wario rages at Matt, or Azn rages at Kai-Wario, or I rage at just about everybody, its because there is a sense of "this person is just being ignorant" or "this person is just trolling" that you get ( and it may be the case that these are false alarms, but often the feeling is still there) that is intolerable, and you feel like its a disrespect to you, and the fact that you are at some level, trying to play the game.

Ragers should probably tolerate more experience lacking things, like the lack of the ability to gauge when to go B, or when to initiate, or when someone wastes a long CD on a useless target but there is a segment in there that I think is valid to rage against, a type of ignorance that loses games.

So yeah I rage, Kai-Wario (occasionally) rages, Azn rages, and we would could rage about less things, there are definitely some things that are just idiocy that we are angry about.
Rage now learn later, means learning from losses, and is basically my own reference topic where I will post about my own losses, to myself, and rage, and then post what I learned.

Be warned, these can flame people on the site too. If you don't like it, don't read it.
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Post by Zhu Yang on 2011-08-26, 17:41

I think you can consolidate both rage topics. The other post could serve as a little introduction, maybe in a spoiler. Two topics dedicated to one person's raging seems a little redundant (as do other topics in this section).
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Post by InteroVegas on 2011-08-26, 18:04

So I am going to start with my two worst losses of the day:

Game 1: Morde V Urgot:
So I am told to tank on Morde and I'm thinking "thats cool just do a FoN > Moggs > Rylai > other stuff and I should be able still get some kills and knock down some towers while I'm at it". I volunteer for mid against urgot "Meh good lane champ, but powerofpoo team-fighter, I should be able to SURVIVE the lane at least, maybe he is powerofpoo and I can win the lane too. O how wrong I was, after he urgot hits level 2 between his passive and his homing spikes he kills me pretty much immediately, without knowing what his passive does I try to 1v1 him and get raped. This continues for a while until I figure out his passive reduces all damage I do by 15% which is pretty harsh, since MY OWN passive works off how much damage I do, so its a pretty hard counter passive against Morde.

So our Karthus takes the lane, but sadly for him Urgot is fed, and gets more fed off him, then urgot goes and ganks bot a couple times (itsame273 and Aznsinman). Richard I'll snap your dick off had his sat in the bushes and afked (his comp froze apparently) after level 7. If ur comp freezes, dont sit in lane an leech xp of people who are ACTIVELY playing. Anyways I was against a solo orianna, underleved, and not catching up because of the leech. The orianna was hitting like a truck with spell pen shoes 4 rings and a blasting wand, urgot ganks me and I die. We lose more towers and still no surrender, because I refuse and Richard was afk. It gets to a point where itsame273 refuses to move and Aznsin went off to feed at the tower.

Rage at itsame273 and Aznsinman: Hey douchebags, don't play lol if you are ever going to feed/afk just because you can't surrender. The feeding trolls do that, o right, that match you were feeding, and by afking and feeding, you were trolling. Get over it that you can't surrender and just play until you lose or your team surrenders. Kai-Wario, half the f@cking time you want to fight until the bitter end, or surrender because Mei has to leave, and then you act like a B$tch over this? You are an @sshole and a loser.

And yes I did put you on ignore on LoL because when you don't play singed you suck, and if you are going to be a d$ck of a person in the game to then I don't see any reason to play with you. (Well ur OK with trist, but mostly if you going to be a d$ck then its not worth playing with you).

Cause of Loss:
Early game:
-Morde lost to Urgot mid
-Nocturne AFKed
-Bot sat at their tower passively while the whole match crumbled, never sending one up to gank.
Mid game:
There was none, game was over early game
End game:
Same as Mid game

Learning Time:
-Kai-Wario has the worst LoL policies, both on ksing and on surrendering.
-Morde gets hard countered by urgot in lane - at level 2 with rune pages urgot can deny Morde his shield like crazy.
-If I die twice quickly for no special reason I should call in a switch.
-If your team is losing in the laning phase, then everyone (including myself) need to realize it and switch into a free flowing group gank fest in hopes of changing the situation.
-Even if your team has awful late game potential you can still terrorize the enemy team into forfeiting.

Bottom Line: itsame273 was a douchebag, I/Morde lost to an urgot, @sshole on gmail (o was his name richard, I thought it was itsame273, being synonymous with the term douchebag and all)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Game 2: Renekton + Taric v Caitlyn and Gragas

The lane itself started out pretty poorly, taric and I were poked to our tower, and taric got dived. I then died to Gragas after killing Caitlyn. But, we made a turnaround, where I scored a nice double kill ( <3 Taric stun and heal ) we downed their tower right there and dominated the lane a bit more. Eventually it was settled that gragas would camp his tower and stop us from pushing (and with drunken rage this would last quite a while) so taric roamed around helping lanes while I csed for a bit. After I see mid overextend wayyy too much I go in for a gank and we get it - things are looking real smooth right about now, I'm renekton, I'm fed, I have an IE on top of my tanky items what could go wrong. WELL, top started feeding a lot, to be precise, F2P gragas (who was baelhammer) started feeding like crazy which made top lane weak and subpar. Most of the kills were not under on his side of the river so not much way for anyone else to gank. Our teemo was supposed to be with him, but we have no idea wtf he was doin and in the mid game he had shrooms everywhere and I could see him no where useful ever. Around midgame after crushing their team a little bit too much during teamfights I'd get exhausted each time and focused into oblivion, and my team just died from there. At the fight that was the turning point of the enemy team our gragas was BDING when I point out that he totally missed the fight and our towers were about to be owned by 4 people mid (the fight was right in front of our tower) he teleports to the tower and gets instagibbed. A little bit more resistance goes on, but they mostly pushed through mid and and killed us after they aced us a couple more times.

Rage at Baelhammer: Don't play F2P champs without warning people, so they can at least leave or ASK U TO NOT PLAY F2P. And if someone does, then please switch (unless its like two days before champion rotation, then AMOS them and go lose or win or w/e u like, no point in never being able to play your F2P champs). BUT I still say that going comp - vs ai with the F2P champ u want to use is the best thing to do until you get the hand of them.

Learning:
- If the champ carrying a team is melee, you can focus em down and rape them, unless they can eat citrus fruit and escape the cc, which is probably what makes GP and ESPECIALLY good melee carry.
- F2P at level 30 is a joke, I kinda already knew this.
- Taric has truly proven to me his simple ranged stun can really wreck lanes - (especially on top of crocogators stun, thats like like 2 to 3 seconds of stun (yes 2 to 3, between rage on W for renekton and that range scaling thing on taric its pretty variable)
- I was in the idea of thinking as long as you have a fed carry who knows what they are doing, then its ok if they hog all the kills. But while supports should not be taking kills, other carries / assasins need to take kills so that focusing can't TOTALLY shutdown your teams success. DO NOT GET ME WRONG if its like early or mid game and the carry has 4 or 5 kills, don't ks em (esp if they have a snowball item i.e. mejai) in fact NEVER ks someone on purpose (unless its the support, even the tank, like if he did 99% of the damage and he wants the kill, give it to him). But if they are 6,7,8 - 0 dont feel bad if u got the triple kill over them because u may or may not have timed it in the teamfight or 1v2 or 2v2 or what not. But running in there and ksing is a douche thing to do, unless there's a high chance of your ally dieing.
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Post by InteroVegas on 2011-08-26, 18:17

Vroop wrote:I think you can consolidate both rage topics. The other post could serve as a little introduction, maybe in a spoiler. Two topics dedicated to one person's raging seems a little redundant (as do other topics in this section).

Slight difference in that the other topic is ABOUT raging. This is me raging and talking about my powerofpoo matches.
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Post by Corenat Rovarnus on 2011-08-26, 20:03

Darkgenesis wrote: This continues for a while until I figure out his passive reduces all damage I do by 15% which is pretty harsh, since MY OWN passive works off how much damage I do, so its a pretty hard counter passive against Morde.
Urgot isn't so subpar now huh
Darkgenesis wrote:
Rage at Baelhammer: Don't play F2P champs without warning people, so they can at least leave or ASK U TO NOT PLAY F2P. And if someone does, then please switch (unless its like two days before champion rotation, then AMOS them and go lose or win or w/e u like, no point in never being able to play your F2P champs). BUT I still say that going comp - vs ai with the F2P champ u want to use is the best thing to do until you get the hand of them.
Yes that was my bad, sorry for no warning and epic failing, you can pretty much pin the blame for losing entirely on me. When I got renekton I did a few AI matches with him first and found that I suck so I don't actually use him in pvp.

Clarification: The problem is not actually F2P champs, it is playing a champion for the first/few times, and you usually do that with a F2P. A counterexample is that I have been good with singed (and mord but that is questionable) but haven't bought them until a few days ago
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Post by InteroVegas on 2011-08-26, 20:37

Urgot is still AWFUL in teamfights, he doesn't do his godly harass fast enough to be worth it, also when u land the poison on a bunch of people it f@cks up the homing part of his missile.

Yes I don't take my advice every 2 weeks when I first play a new champ, but I am betting my credibility when I do that, and I shouldn't, but because of various circumstantial factors I more often than not do well and survive the event.

Some champions click with you at the start more than others, like singed in your case, you get into the mindset easy and so you do better than other first time players would.

Morde, is morde, he is just EZ2PLAY. It is pretty hard to fail with morde, you need to either get hard countered by something that can deny your shield (like malz dot or urgot dmg reduc debuff) or be in a 1v2 that has harass capability. Morde srsly blows 1v2, but he can do great 2v2 and 1v1.
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Post by The Lord Kelvin on 2011-08-26, 22:25

lol sure if u insist amos, letting carries ks tanks and supports is a bad policy (or just getting the kill so it's secure (aka "no such thing as ks ing, only good teamwork")); also surrendering when it's a 4v5 trying to make it so that a friend doesn't get banned is a bad idea apparently. I enjoy playing games to the end even if we lose, but i'd rather not lose people over it (YES AMOS IF U NEEDED TO LEAVE EVEN IF WE R WINNING I WOULD VOTE YES ON SURRENDER).

Darkgenesis wrote:Richard I'll snap your dick off had his sat in the bushes and afked (his comp froze apparently) after level 7. If ur comp freezes, dont sit in lane an leech xp of people who are ACTIVELY playing. Anyways I was against a solo orianna, underleved, and not catching up because of the leech.
=.= dude his comp froze... u think he can move?

Darkgenesis wrote: o right, that match you were feeding, and by afking and feeding, you were trolling.
my score was 1/3/1, urs was 1/7/0....... if ur gonna use this logic, u troll'd more

I know ur gonna respond to this, plz note that i will not respond to ur taunt, unless it is directly contridictory to what u say, or is completely false, as i do not wish to stoop to ur lvl. and honestly, if u think my fiddles or vlad is worse than my trist, then..... believe wut u want.

o btw denying morde with vlad isn't hard
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Post by Corenat Rovarnus on 2011-08-26, 23:30

You know how the lock on thing with urgot works, you mouse over the target that got marked with the gas charge, so unless they are grinding each other in an orgy I don't think it's too hard to hit the person you want with acid hunter

itsame273 wrote:lol sure if u insist amos, letting carries ks tanks and supports is a bad policy (or just getting the kill so it's secure (aka "no such thing as ks ing, only good teamwork")); also surrendering when it's a 4v5 trying to make it so that a friend doesn't get banned is a bad idea apparently. I enjoy playing games to the end even if we lose, but i'd rather not lose people over it (YES AMOS IF U NEEDED TO LEAVE EVEN IF WE R WINNING I WOULD VOTE YES ON SURRENDER).
I don't quite understand what he just said, but in most cases I would fight until the very end as well.

itsame273 wrote:
I know ur gonna respond to this, plz note that i will not respond to ur taunt, unless it is directly contridictory to what u say, or is completely false, as i do not wish to stoop to ur lvl. and honestly, if u think my fiddles or vlad is worse than my trist, then..... believe wut u want.

o btw denying morde with vlad isn't hard
OH SNAP
well your jungle fiddles is not that bad
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Post by The Lord Kelvin on 2011-08-26, 23:41

@Corenat Rovarnus wrote:
itsame273 wrote:lol sure if u insist amos, letting carries ks tanks and supports is a bad policy (or just getting the kill so it's secure (aka "no such thing as ks ing, only good teamwork")); also surrendering when it's a 4v5 trying to make it so that a friend doesn't get banned is a bad idea apparently. I enjoy playing games to the end even if we lose, but i'd rather not lose people over it (YES AMOS IF U NEEDED TO LEAVE EVEN IF WE R WINNING I WOULD VOTE YES ON SURRENDER).
I don't quite understand what he just said, but in most cases I would fight until the very end as well.

btw wut i meant was i was basically saying that letting carries ks tanks and supports and just ks-ing cuz u think the prey might get away (which is why i always say "no such thing as ks ing, only good teamwork") is my policy (and i don't see what's wrong with that...) and also that I typically put up surrender votes because i don't want someone that i know to get banned for having to leave the game (btw amos said directly to me that if i put up a vote for this reason and our team was winning, he'd vote no)
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Post by InteroVegas on 2011-08-27, 00:50

There are a solid amount of times (there are those times when people might get away, always a chance for a lot of stuff) when the kill is solid and you or someone else walks in just kses someone. The classic example of this would be with irelia and gp chasing down an OOM (flash used for some failed initiation) alistar, irelia almost has him, and gp just walks in and goes "boom, parley, o im sorry I just wanted to make sure we got the kill" thats a ks.

As to the Morde v Vlad, Morde can't push vlad out due to sustain, but he can stay in the lane. Vlad doesn't deny mordes shield at a basic level, exhaust and other damage reducing type moves hurt him a hell of a lot more. YES morde is susceptible to level 1/2 poke-spam -> ignite combo kills, that is a weakness in the champ, and its a way to beat him, seen it happen to me and to other mordes against champs like cait and brand. Welcome to the world where Junglers become relevant.

In my book 1/3/ something less than 5 or 6 (early game) is feeding, 1/2 is a bad situation, 1/3 is stuff is bad. at 1/7 im not worth crap on a kill. 0/10 == 0/20 in terms of a bad situation, equally useless (assume same amount of assists and cs).

Back on the KSing its not teamwork unless everyone dumped their moves in a 3v3 4v4 5v5, its unreasonable in the middle or start of one of those to not use moves just so one person can get a kill. But on cleanup duty you can definitely tell if someone has something or not. (if you REALLY can't, i.e. flash, ezreal blink wasn't just used, its yi on ult, something suspiciously dodgy that isn't OOM, then yeah go for it, but if they don't have an obvious way to escape then yeah its ksing which if we've forgotten the full term is kill-stealing) I think tanks need money to tank - you have no problem with that being singed and all and ending your matches with stuff like 9/7/15 but on other tanks i.e. alistar, rammus, maokai, malphite, leona, who also aren't supposed to cs in lane they need kills (or way too many assists) in order to get their items. Tank items are a bit below the cost of AP carry items, but getting a FoN and shoes and Banshees/Moggs/something with giants belt in it is f@cking expensive if your carry has 5 or 6 kills, your tank probably needs 1 or 2 and assists on all those kills to keep up the pace so he can tank.

As for richard, his comp froze, so he could camp in bush perfectly? I believe his comp froze whole heartedly, so not as many hard feelings there, but to plant him self in bush obviously camping xp, too much.

And then for some generic rage: I think if I say for myself that I have about 3 , MAYBE 4 viable champs I can use, then all you have is singed, who is good, but thats all. I don't depend on you to carry with trist ever, thats just luck of the draw that you got some kills. Your vlad seems slow and you chase like a singed when you play him. AND O MY GOD THE TUNNEL VISION, when stuff isn't happening you look at the map instead of blindly cs which is great, but when that person is close to dead you just chase into oblivion. Then when you are singed you act like you are invincible roughly 1/10 of the time (yeah its not a lot, but its happened enough), kinda out of the blue, and will do things like try to poison the carry at 1/3 to 1/2 hp to death as if they can't kill you.

YOU mentioned your fiddles, it makes me sad, but its a free world, so I don't stop you and I won't. But ffs you sure can tunnel vision your f@cking jungle creeps and ignore the rest of the map blatantly, "hold on" no, never, ever, ever, unless you are OOM and at low hp (which after you pick up blue and drain the wolves, shouldn't happen, if it is, you need to fix that).

TL;DR
Tanks need SOME kills on top of those assists
KSing already secure kills (on a non support) is a d$ck move
Kai-Wario I think your trist,vlad,fiddles suck and only do good when either other team are noobs, our team carries you, or fiddles just hard counters some of their picks.
Denying morde means using a move the completely inhibits morde from gaining shield in the first place. DoTs and Damage reduction - using Transfusion on mordes shield isn't denying, thats just mordes shield being put to use.

Only had 1 more loss today, wasn't really worth raging about, I just need to relearn Maokai, my fault for not playing him in so long. Vayne in my lane sucked, I sucked, enemy Caitlyn snowballed with the help of Alistar across all the turrets on the map, my fail.
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Post by The Lord Kelvin on 2011-08-27, 01:27

btw every1 gets tunnel vision including u... i've seen u dive liek powerofpoo tons of times too... btw when im fiddles and i say 1 sec, it's either cuz im already coming from ganking some1 else (so don't b a greedy bich and wanting me to gank only ur lane), or cuz I AM OOM AND IM GRABBING BLU.... also i don't use transfusion on mordes shield, u have to b aggressive and stay at the front of ur creep line, cuz trans has a longer range than mordes moves, u can transfusion him bfore he gets the shield in the first place.... btw u know i don't ks if i know u can get it, so don't try that powerofpoo on me, and sure... our team carries me....... a carry is supposed to b carried by his team so he can carry later.... it's how i treat u when i lane with u using singed.. that's y u think im good with him (it's also why having a carry with a bich lane is better than a double carry lane). btw when u say u dont' stop me..... i don't recall u ever not stopping me...... (ie: rambo medic, trying urgot, etc, i can think of tons more.... and the thing is U DON'T STOP OTHER PPL WHICH IS GAY-MOS RIDICULOUS). o and about only doing well against noobs.... i could say the same about you
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Post by Capitalist Pig on 2011-08-27, 02:42

Given that the 2 champs I play most often are both tanks, I agree that you need kills to thrive.

Now for some raging of my own.
Just the other day I had a game. The game was off to a bad start when our skarner was 0/2 at level 2 and then DC'd. As the game progressed, their Jax, Warwick, and Yi got DISGUSTINGLY fed. not to mention we had a warwick of our own that finished the game 0/21/3. I played this game fairly well too; not my best, but nowhere near my worst. this game was just ridiculous.
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Post by InteroVegas on 2011-08-27, 10:51

On your singed: I think you are best with singed because your scores keep showing me that he is your best champ. Your scores with singed are typically way better than your scores with Vladmir, Fiddles or Trist (and I do mean in terms of kills of as well).

My bad on the typo with not stopping people, I meant not stopping people on plausibly legit ideas (that in theory, or elsewhere have proven to work).

On tunnel vision: The distances you chase when you get stuck on a kill are horrendous, of the players we know, you are the only one I know (excluding matt, and I haven't played with sandow) who will chase people down into the most obviously dangerous situations. Like into their jungle when 3 are mia. The irony is you do this the least as singed (predominantly vladmir). And oh yeah, I do need to study more on how to dive better to avoid being kited, but thats more awful gauging the situation than tunnel vision. "Meh, I figure I can tank that tower and kill them" which needs to really be improved to more analysis. Tunnel Vision and over confidence are 2 different things. Tunnel Vision is being ignorant of the entire map, Over Confidence is just assuming you can handle situations that you can't.

Vlad V Morde, call in a team-mate to gank (and yes you can dump flash or sanguine or something and not die, but then you moved back which is good by itself). Also by zoning Morde like that you end up getting the lane pushed towards him. It reaches tower and he can get his shield. I mean you can still transfuse him and eat the tower shot and possibly his Siphon of Destruction as well which puts u at a loss that trade. Seriously if I had to vs a morde mid I'd just be like "f@ck this, jungler get over here when he pushes and we will own him".

When you're fiddles and you say 1 sec I see you on some large creep, you do not gank very much at all, lots of lanes have to repeat 3 or 4 times for you to come gank. And usually by the time you get there after the 4th call its a bit late. (other people do this too, but its not excuse-able, someone says "come gank" they mean now to within 30 seconds, they don't mean in 1 to 2 minutes).

The teams carry is supposed to be able to "carry" which is vague so I use it as the champ that can toss around lots of damage and shut down the enemy team if not shut down by an enemy champion. Which is how I interpret assassin different because more assassins are carry killers than general team killers. (Nocturne, Irelia can still easily kill enemy carries, but obviously they have some carrying power of their own).

@Sandow: As skarner stands right now, even having him on your team is already putting you down a player, because he is just so GAY-MOS useless, his ULT needs a .5 second increase, his moves just need to get exaggerated, like they need to nerf 1 part of a move and then buff a different part so that the moves have something viable in them. Right now he is just a bunch of lackluster garbage. And if you were a tank and you had WW you werent a 4v5 win contender, usually need a set of some weird high cc types with tanky-ish high dmg types.
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Post by InteroVegas on 2011-08-27, 12:08

Game 3: Leona + Galio v Talon

At champ select things were already a bit fishy, I picked leona first, then someone took orianna, a caitlyn got picked and then nidalee and galio got picked. "Ok so galio can be tanky dps and this can work".

No, powerofpoo went bad. Orianna died to Ezreal mid in roughly 50 seconds of the match beginning. Galio went over to try and kill Ezreal and got killed as well. Then I tried to Zenith > Shield talon - I wasn't paying attention that I dove directly into a wave of 7 caster minions - he dropped his ignite and exhaust and ignite and I got wrecked - I learned that leona early game is still very killable by talon because he decimates people who have high hp but not so high armor. But the rage part is that our orianna just utterly died to ezreal, and there is no hard counter here. Its not like we sent an Annie against a Kassadin mid. The rest of their team (talon, amumu, nidalee, soraka) was just kinda ok, top was stalled, and while talon scored that 1 kill, galio and I warded river strongly so amumu could never gank. Talon never scored another kill on us - though towards the end of the match we died in some crappy fights led and abandoned by orianna. She tunnel visioned through the jungle after a NIDALEE -.- who had more base ms and had pounce so she just ranaway from the fight while she left 2 tanks and a support nidalee to fight ezreal and talon and soraka and amumu. And orianna came after we died (not getting the kill on nidalee) and got killed as well. Orianna tried to be a lot of thing and ended up letting the other team snowball into victory.

What I learned:
-Even Ezreal can carry a team when he gets fed early. (was unimpressive though, we could stall him hard).
-Double tank is really a fail way to go.
-Early Moggs on Leona is not always the best way to go, can't just depend on W for resistance (im thinking between negatron / sunfire early instead)
-There is only so much you can do lane phase. If your carry feeds the enemy carry, there isn't much YOU the support/tank can do to turn around the situation.
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Post by The Lord Kelvin on 2011-08-27, 12:18

yes i agree that my singed has my best scores, but that doesn't make my other character's less than par.... idk if it's just rage or if u really think so, but u did say that singed is my only good character earlier... and when's the last that u've seen me chase into enemy jungle with vlad? i've only pley'd vlad with u once after august.... i have the replay... i always stay'd behind my team... i don't gank much with fiddles? i think ur referring to only the first game i've had with him... and don't try to get me to gank bfore i get lvl 4.... if i ask u to gank bfore u finish ur route, u would say "no, that's babysitting a lane"... which is exactly wut ur trying to make me do when i jungle. only buff i go for after 1st run thru is blu.... i gank forever after that... and vlad v morde, ur adding in too many outside factors, im just saying a 1v1, if ur gonna say, ask for a teammate to help, i could say that for any champ that im losing against, also quit talking about morde's shield like it's invincible, at lvls 1-5 1 shot from vlad's autoattack does half of the shield, and doing an autoattack trans combo wouldn't b hard... yes carries have a large amount of dmg early, but they have powerofpoo health, they still have to depend on their team... they can't get to the "hur hur hur, if it's only me and my tank, then i can take out ur whole team" status without getting help from their team earlier, unless the enemy is a bunch of noobs

@sandow, u don't need kills to thrive, assists can get u up to 270 gold, if u do most the dmg on an enemy and ur teammate ks's u, u get 270 gold and he gets 300... don't u think that's better than u getting 300 and him getting nothing?

o and btw amos, if im still on ur ignore list, u can take me off whenever u want, im not mad at u, only ur mad at me, im just responding to ur outlandish statements about my gameplay and insults to my ks and surrender policies
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Post by InteroVegas on 2011-08-27, 12:47

You aren't on the ignore list - you just sit on my list

It hasn't been just me, but if its 1v1, and the person is way pushed to their tower, go at level 2/3 and just blow summoners and kill the b1tch - flash, ignite, exhaust (one of the two of u prolly has 1) , they are that over extended that its a kill for one of you.

They can't rambo , doesn't meant they aren't the one carrying their team the most. if for some reason (I dunno like a blue gank?) there is a level 4 or 5 teamfight, your carry (and probably ur assassin jungler, unless ur amumu or cho gath) is going to do the most (unless they suck as a player, but then no matter what they do they gonna fail) - level 3 or 4 ashe / brand / caitlyn / annie is going to toss out slows/stuns/higher damage than the rest. Yeah there are definitely some carries that need to be a higher level (i.e. Akali) but carries still carry more than the rest of their team at most stages of the game (I'd say not for a level teamfight, because then straight up cc wins those).

Tanks need money - you can't keep up with the enemy damage even if you have a damage reducing ultimate. And I really don't like the idea that tanks should just let their carries have all the cs (there is probably some derivable number of cs that each should get in lane) Sure your carry needs MORE cs but how are you supposed to tank if you can't get giants belt, or armor, or mr? you can be disruptive, but not soak up much damage, and while tanks are not supposed to die for their team, they definitely should be trying to soak up damage IN PLACE of their team-mates (getting chunked by an aoe move doesn't help your team at all - this is not pointed at you Kai-Wario this is just a general point).

"Too many factors" - its a team game , don't resort to "you needed to use 2 people to beat me, if it was 1v1 i'd kick your ass", ganking 101 - if someone is overextended and not god mode (like a fed akali or something similar) go gank them. If I had kevin or felix jungling I'd just ask for a gank they'd jump u and you would back off or die. Yes you can ward the bushes, but that doesn't exactly stop them from zoning you back from the front of the wave. So then you say "ok well then you overextend and I gank / zone you" - to this I say , I'll have my own wards, I'll play conservative on minions so that I can squeeze more clutch shield out of them. Not push the lane as hard, and then oh look, suddenly solo mid is part of an entire team game with multiple factors such as ganks, wards, helping other lanes, global ults, controlling buffs, and o wow, now the champs are in the context of a 5v5 match, and no longer a walled off 1v1.

Yes, there are 1v1 laning tournaments, that isn't what SR is primarily about though, that is a fanmade type of mode.

Did you ever actually respond to me being mostly pissed at you because you just afked on the pool? or TOLD john to go feed? you don't think THAT'S the reason I'm angry at you?
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Post by The Lord Kelvin on 2011-08-27, 13:18

i didn't tell jon to feed btw, also u were the one starting the surrender votes, so i was trying to support u by afking to get other ppl to surrender... but u suddenly had a change of heart and raged at me.... dun quite understand that, but ok... yes u'd beat me a 1v1 i'd admit to that, im just trying to help u with ur morde, so u stop thinking that ur shield is invincible, im not saying that "i'd own ur ass" im just trying to help u (so stop talking about other factors while im stating things about morde in a 1v1 walled off hypothetical situation)..... this is a topic about learning remember? also about getting jungle to gank..... i could do the exact same, so it's not really a counter to say that u could get jungle to gank... also tanks don't need as much money as carries, and if carries get fed, then tanks get assists which gets them money.... plz listen to the person that's good at tanking about how to pley tank.... yes the carry can dish out dmg, but they can't carry without their team... u said earlier that i only do well when my team carries me..... plz explain how u can do well if ur team doesn't carry u? u have a noob team, against normal players where ur the only 1 good.... sure go ahead and win amos, even if u can win ur lane, it's not likely that u can turn the game around , unless ur a hyper carry like jax and ur team as at least enough teamwork to meatshield for u... also about kevin or felix jungling, yes that's tru, but they still need to finish their first run through, or they have no ganking power.... so don't tell me to babysit ur lane when im jungling... i finish my run, gank, blu buff, gank, gank gank, blu buff, and so on....
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Post by InteroVegas on 2011-08-27, 13:28

I didn't start the surrender votes: I pressed no every time.

The topic is rage now learn later, already talked about dots and some other counters to Morde, I will add more as I play more - trying to get away from morde though as he is a) banned all the time or picked before me, b) no cc so he can only snowball and carry or be kinda meh.

"How u can do well if ur team doesn't carry u?" (yes im too lazy to do quotes)

I've carried my team before even when they were total garbage. Won my lane, won ganks, won teamfights practically 2v5. Its called carrying your team. (on vayne, on mordekaiser, on nasus and I also believe on renekton once, rare stuff, but tis happens). If you get so many kills and are so tanky / dodgey that it becomes rather useless to focus you down, then you can carry your team. The classic example is those akali numbers - they can drop stealth to avoid getting utterly focused (except by the rare skill shot stun champs) and can bash out faces very fast.

Kevin ganks whenever u ask him to (unless he is like across the map 3/4 done on blue D:<). Jungler doesn't NEED a cc to gank an over extended person, you can just combo up for some damage and kill them, or make them dump their flash / escape summoner ability.
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Post by The Lord Kelvin on 2011-08-27, 13:57

ok, as i said, it's impossible to carry ur team UNLESS THE OTHER TEAM IS NOOB. if ur the only 1 who has won ur lane against a decent team then u shouldn't b able to snowball like that after laning phase is over (if u respond that u can.... im just not gonna respond to that particular comment).... i've snowball'd tons of times against noobs too. btw kevin has runes, i don't, i am unable to gank until i finish jungle once, or u let me farm ur lane (neither of which u can apparently tolerate). yes i can babysit u and help u win ur lane, but then i'll b underlvl'd later...

and about the surrender voting, srry about that, but i guess i ignor'd who started the vote and just assumed it was u, ur attitude in that particular match is pretty uncharacteristic of ur typical attitude
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Post by InteroVegas on 2011-08-27, 14:14

I don't want people babysitting my lane, I want my junglers to gank when there is an opening and go. Yes junglers fall behind if the lanephase doesn't end soon enough, or if they can't get enough kills+assists. Its part of being a jungler.

Sure you can't carry against a team of 5 pros, but if they have maybe 2 good players, and then 1 sub par and then 2 who are more suck than good, you can carry against them, by virtue of ridiculous gear and level advantage - if you are level 16 and they are all level 10 (and like 1 12) you can STOMP on them.

Yes it is uncharacteristic of me, but by no means is it an excuse to just assume I started the surrender -.-.
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Post by The Lord Kelvin on 2011-08-27, 14:24

Darkgenesis wrote:I don't want people babysitting my lane, I want my junglers to gank when there is an opening and go. Yes junglers fall behind if the lanephase doesn't end soon enough, or if they can't get enough kills+assists. Its part of being a jungler.

Sure you can't carry against a team of 5 pros, but if they have maybe 2 good players, and then 1 sub par and then 2 who are more suck than good, you can carry against them, by virtue of ridiculous gear and level advantage - if you are level 16 and they are all level 10 (and like 1 12) you can STOMP on them.

Yes it is uncharacteristic of me, but by no means is it an excuse to just assume I started the surrender -.-.

yes i realize it's not an excuse... that's y i apologized... if u didn't notice...................

btw i do gank, all the GAY-MOS time, so quit talking like i don't gank at all, but i can't let myself gank bforehand, and just fall to hell... as i said bfore i dun have runes, so i can't afford to die bfore lvl 4.... or i'll just b feeding later..... and im pretty sure u should b able to hold for 4 min instead of being a greedy bich and asking me to gank then.... have some situational awareness..... KEVIN HAS RUNES SO HE CAN AFFORD TO GANK BFORE LVL 4, I DON'T, if i do and die, i can't get blu again after... i won't have enough power to be able to do so... and if u say im a bad player because of this, then so be it, believe what u wish

if the team is only 2 good and 1 sub par and 2 that r feeders..... that's not really a decent team.... so ur arguement doesn't apply to that.... i said i wouldn't respond if u said u could do well against a good team while ur team sucks, but.... this isn't a good team, and u cannot carry to turn the game around against a good team
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Post by InteroVegas on 2011-08-27, 14:40

then I assume you are in the process of getting AP quints.

AND - its not always about a bad lane, sometimes they enemy just pushes hard and the chance presents itself, in my mind its "this is a free kill, we can totally cash in on this right now before the wave hits the tower, cmonnn!!!"

I had some amazing jungle guide that was super helpful to my jungling, and I'm really pissed that I can't find it in my browsing history (used search terms and all =/ ) and I can't paraphrase what he said properly because he said it damn well. but if I find it again I will link u.
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Post by The Lord Kelvin on 2011-08-27, 14:50

k, ty that will b helpful
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Post by InteroVegas on 2011-08-27, 15:05

its intense, he has a good amount of specifics for every jungler, how to go about their jungle (not routes, but the general things that the jungler excels at doing) he also explained counter jungling - invasion, distraction, ganking, warding, everything a jungler does. Its damn good stuff and I wish I had posted the link on the site.
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Post by Corenat Rovarnus on 2011-08-27, 23:31

Darkgenesis wrote:There are a solid amount of times (there are those times when people might get away, always a chance for a lot of stuff) when the kill is solid and you or someone else walks in just kses someone. The classic example of this would be with irelia and gp chasing down an OOM (flash used for some failed initiation) alistar, irelia almost has him, and gp just walks in and goes "boom, parley, o im sorry I just wanted to make sure we got the kill" thats a ks.
If the gp is feeding and is likely to continue to feed, then yeah rage on him, he's wrong, but most of the time that doesn't matter because fed gp = win
Darkgenesis wrote:
In my book 1/3/ something less than 5 or 6 (early game) is feeding, 1/2 is a bad situation, 1/3 is stuff is bad. at 1/7 im not worth crap on a kill. 0/10 == 0/20 in terms of a bad situation, equally useless (assume same amount of assists and cs).
Assists matter when you are a support or support tank, so it is not always bad if you have few to no kills and a larger amount of deaths.
Darkgenesis wrote:
I think tanks need money to tank - you have no problem with that being singed and all and ending your matches with stuff like 9/7/15 but on other tanks i.e. alistar, rammus, maokai, malphite, leona, who also aren't supposed to cs in lane they need kills (or way too many assists) in order to get their items.
GALIO CAN CS IN LANE AWWW YEAH Cool
"Aren't supposed to cs in lane" is largely dependent on who you are laning with and against. If you're with another tanky dps or support, you can go ahead and take cs, and encourage your partner to do the same because someone has to get it. A last hit opportunity does not last long, if your carry herpderps and doesn't take it and you know the minion is just going to die from allied minions, go ahead and toma el dinero.

Darkgenesis wrote:
As for richard, his comp froze, so he could camp in bush perfectly? I believe his comp froze whole heartedly, so not as many hard feelings there, but to plant him self in bush obviously camping xp, too much.
Some things just happen that way, when I'm not playing a tanky character I usually just camp the bush all the time in laning.
Here's an easy solution: Tell the enemy in all chat that they can go into the bush and kill the guy, free gold and a kill. back off so they know you aren't playing tricks or anything. Someone will do it eventually unless they are sadistic trolls and understand the afker will leech your xp.
Darkgenesis wrote:
And then for some generic rage: I think if I say for myself that I have about 3 , MAYBE 4 viable champs I can use, then all you have is singed, who is good, but thats all. I don't depend on you to carry with trist ever, thats just luck of the draw that you got some kills. Your vlad seems slow and you chase like a singed when you play him. AND O MY GOD THE TUNNEL VISION, when stuff isn't happening you look at the map instead of blindly cs which is great, but when that person is close to dead you just chase into oblivion. Then when you are singed you act like you are invincible roughly 1/10 of the time (yeah its not a lot, but its happened enough), kinda out of the blue, and will do things like try to poison the carry at 1/3 to 1/2 hp to death as if they can't kill you.
From my research about the habits of kai-wario, I would say this is his "BE A MAN" type internal dialogue, I find myself doing the same kind of beserkish charge when he says "singed cmon be a man". He probably doesn't usually get a double kill when he does that though.
Tunnel vision is understandable, it's much easier just to focus entirely on what's going on in your own lane, I see people get ganked(including myself) when they could have escaped because they were watching somewhere else. But what is important is that you CAN be map aware, or else you have the mental capacity of a (insert non asian racial slur)
Darkgenesis wrote:
YOU mentioned your fiddles, it makes me sad, but its a free world, so I don't stop you and I won't. But ffs you sure can tunnel vision your f@cking jungle creeps and ignore the rest of the map blatantly, "hold on" no, never, ever, ever, unless you are OOM and at low hp (which after you pick up blue and drain the wolves, shouldn't happen, if it is, you need to fix that).
LANE FIDDLES FTW BIZNOTCH!!! All fiddle needs is a partner with a bunch of cc like alistar. Drain drain drain draaaain.
Ok yeah all you have to do is stun him or silence, but normally only one of the two will have one, and that's who you drain and knock around.
Darkgenesis wrote:
Only had 1 more loss today, wasn't really worth raging about, I just need to relearn Maokai, my fault for not playing him in so long. Vayne in my lane sucked, I sucked, enemy Caitlyn snowballed with the help of Alistar across all the turrets on the map, my fail.
My first time maokai i kicked ass despite being afk for 10 minute intervals, this was on my 30 acc, during laning all you have to do is chuck sapling grenades in their faces to piss them off. Maybe I click naturally with support tanks, or a certain kind of tank anyway, the kind that has a troll move with long range high AoE damage. *cue Ride of the Valkyries by Richard Wagner*
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Post by InteroVegas on 2011-08-27, 23:49

Tanks need money, assists alone (unless you have 30 in 20 minutes) are not enough for a tank to get the gear they need.

How is your galio going to get his FoN or his banshees by the 20 minute mark with out a kill or 2 (U OF ALL PEOPLE WHO TAKES KILLS IN LANE WITH GALIO)

Its really easy to say "just let it slide" about dcers when you weren't in the match, or they are your friend. But when its someone who in past experiences has pissed me off (talking about gtalk) and then they camp me for xp, no forgiveness for camping xp while being afk, if they are going to afk they should at least dc and port back to pool - the amount of time he wasnt moving he shouldve become afk and ported back to pool, but he didn't.

Fiddles in lane is like Kat - stun and done. (and for fiddles, silence works too).

Tunnel vision is something you practice to stop doing - so no its not understandable - its understandable that its a mistake and not on purpose, but to excuse mistakes is wrong. The idea is that "I did something wrong, I've identified, I will practice to not that wrong anymore".

I know the theory behind how to play maokai - I wasn't allowed to dump saplings cuz our vayne was afraid to push.
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Post by Corenat Rovarnus on 2011-08-28, 00:28

Darkgenesis wrote:Tanks need money, assists alone (unless you have 30 in 20 minutes) are not enough for a tank to get the gear they need.

How is your galio going to get his FoN or his banshees by the 20 minute mark with out a kill or 2 (U OF ALL PEOPLE WHO TAKES KILLS IN LANE WITH GALIO)
U just mad that I happen to land my disgustingly strong ability when they're about to die. It's not gonna happen every single time, so don't get sore about it
Darkgenesis wrote:
I know the theory behind how to play maokai - I wasn't allowed to dump saplings cuz our vayne was afraid to push.
you throw the sapling behind the minion wave so it goes for champions.
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Post by InteroVegas on 2011-08-28, 00:31

No Kooay, it happens every single GAY-MOS time - and those moves are slows so they should be used before hand already.

They just kite them past the minions, like smart people do.
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Post by InteroVegas on 2011-08-28, 16:54

Game 4: Talon and Nidalee v Kennen and Jax

Short one since the rage is about how you need a snowball carry just in case.

I dominate my lane as talon with exhaust and ignite (the control I had on lane with our crappy Nidalee spamming spears all over the place). Their Jax is suicidal and we score kills, their kennen tries to ult dump and I pick up clean up kills.

Basically we crush all our lanes except for malz vs trist mid, he does OK.

So we have a basic comp minus a snowball carry, and they have an autistic poppy for a tank. We crush their towers, their everything its going good, until a couple kennen ults keep us stalled from progressing. The game stalled and stalled and stalled and stalled, to the point where their trist literally 3 shotted everyone on our team. (cept alistar and his invinci ult). their Poppy got 400 ap so she was doing 2000 dmg with Q - close to it. Kennen would ult and die, trist would clean up my team (I usually waited for his ult to get used up) and that happenend abunch, and at about 530 cs for her they just finished us.

What I learned:
Talon proved to me (I was on equal score with trist) that true assassins can not carry. Carry Assassins and Tank assassins like nocturne and irelia can carry matches because they have super strong late game power, people like lee sin and talon have dominating mid game power and can still provide a lot of damage late game, but just can't carry.

You need a snowball carry if you think there is any chance your match could drag out (this means you always need one). If the game hits 50 to 60 minutes, snowball carries who were feeding the whole match, or doing sub-par can hit the upswing of their curve and just blow up the enemy team.

Our nidalee sucked, she played like an old nidalee and just plain flopped. Pounce can't be spammed as hard, you can't sustain your lane as hard, you can't dodge autos and use nimbleness, R.I.H. nidalee.
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Post by InteroVegas on 2011-08-30, 18:13

Game 5: Yorick and Failtheon vs Alistar and MF

F@cking dominated. Forwarned this IS QQ. F@cking alistar kept headbutt + pulverizing to do free harass, he would just go oom on it so that we couldn't do jack powerofpoo. This was split vs "he knows what he is doing" and "noob spammer" and at the pace he was doing this, I seriously go with "noob spammer", he felt and looked like a 1 trick pony. All the zoning was there, but that his only moveset he ever used - never pulverzie headbutt, or anything solo (except when chased), he just kept - headbutt -> pulverize, and this constant spam annoyed the sh1t out of me. This is the type of gameplay that should be removed from the game, I'd MUCH rather play against an infinite sustained nidalee than a perma disabling alistar - its called unfun. Then you argue "well just because its spam doesn't make it noob" (actually thats my typical argument, then I say it can use balancing, sometimes), but using it purely for damage harass and eating 2 tower shots every other combo qualifies to me as stupid. Now against failtheon - the crux moment is when we could have fought, and I ulted him, he died and ran away AS A GHOST -.- F@CKING FAILURE! Earlier in lane when we had lane advantage he was fail csing ruining it for both me and him. I played agressive ish (as agressive as you can be without initiating when under your own tower) pantheon camped the tower, not csing, not anything-ing (cept getting harassed to his repeated deaths to alistar).

passive MF got carried by a noob spam combo from alistar while our pantheon did nothing "I can't do sh1t, to much cc" "I can't do anything against them" my ass you can't when you have a teammate with f@cking re-animation as an ultimate, (and I ulted him because he had about 30 more AD than me). The pantheon was a cowardly bum, the alistar was a noob spammer, I was over-agressive and the MF just played off the alistars spam.

double rage thumbs down at alistar, was less fun playing against him than playing against a morde for my 2nd time (and o how that was not fun).

What I learned? Alistars f@ggot combo wasn't removed unlike I thought it was (and dudes this had to be either godlike keypressing or a macro, since the community believes alistar can't do the headbutt pulverize combo anymore - like that keys on que thing from that post wayy back on RoG.

I'm angry, I have to go somewhere and I am coming back tonight to go steamroll something - hopefully with an alistar. (I am starting to get why he is godlike now, son of a b1tch needs que nerfs so his headbutt pulverize combo is truly gone, and that invulnerability needs to be reduced)

OBTW - the alistars summoner name was alistar - yes it was a smurf (for those who don't get it automatically, people with LoL champion names are smurfs, and this guy had alistar skins and all).
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Post by Xenoe on 2011-08-31, 20:13

In equal lanes, the side that has the initiative wins.
And Alistar's combo still works, just that it has a longer CD, if Pantheon wasn't such a pussy, u can harass him for far more when his powerofpoo is on cd, and he can't pulverize you to run cus he just did it.
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Post by The Lord Kelvin on 2011-09-01, 01:49

btw amos, is this the jungling guide u were talking about?
http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/who-is-your-jungler-and-what-does-he-do-114118
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Post by InteroVegas on 2011-09-01, 17:57

No
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Post by InteroVegas on 2011-09-11, 01:09

Game 6: Renekton and Poppy vs Akali and Jarvan

How. The. F@ck. did we lose.

this is a general rage to all these sorts of games, where it makes no sense to me where my team just started failing. Our vlad started yelling at everyone else for screwing up when he himself couldn't give us the dps we were looking for. We had slip ups here and there from me missing easy kills like an idiot to poppy ulting the wrong person in a fight and getting gibbed for it. But that was after it was apparently were going to lose. I don't get where the loss part came in. like we were RAPING - but then it seems like an unkillable jarvan made our team suffer.

What I learned -
When your team is 4 ad, the enemy tank can go into god mode and focus armor and become an invincible tank that plows through the field - this is almost a literal analogy for jarvan.

You NEED some1 who can be the uber god dpser endgame, bruisers like garen and renekton can't do so. tryndamere is just not up to par with others for being the teams endgame god dps. Poppy coulda done it, but Kai-Wario had too many assists and there was no way our team was going to be able to support him enough to carry us to victory. Vlad doesn't have abilities that lend him to being your teams uber carry - his damage just tapers.
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Post by The Lord Kelvin on 2011-09-11, 09:24

about teh last comment, vlad coudla done it, but anzsinman wasn't really being a team man there. He typically just went in 2v5 and died. vlad needs to b behind the tank, or in our case, several half tanks. vlad has amasing dps if u get enough shots off (which you don't do by standing in the middle of 5 enemies). He needs to go home and be a family man because guile's theme fits with everything. DAT CHIKIN!!!
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