Mind Puzzles

by **Corenat Rovarnus** 2010-08-06, 19:26

I'm basically assembling a collection of tricky puzzle questions that require some thinking to solve correctly.

1. The two guards (everyone knows this)
You are trying to get to a certain town (Truthville, happytown, heaven, whatever) when you come to a fork in the path. You know that one of the paths leads to the place you want to go, and the other leads to another place you do not want to go to(hell, liarsburg, etc.), but you don't know which paths lead to which destinations. There are two guards/people at the fork, one standing at each alternate path who know the right path. One always lies, and one always tells the truth, but you also don't know which one is which. How can you find out which path leads to the good place?
Limitations: You may only ask a single question to a single guard, not knowing whether he lies or tells the truth.

2. Certain Death?
You are meeting with a person in a superior position (your landlord, a king, etc.) who is able to decide whether you live or die. (or something equivalent, like getting kicked out of your house) He doesn't really like you, but wants to make your execution look fair. So he makes you an offer: There are two pieces of folded up paper (or slips inside a container like a fortune cookie), one with "Life" written on it and one with "Death" written on it. You must pick one at random, and whatever is written on it will be your fate. Unfortunately this guy is an unquestionable dictator, so in reality both papers have "Death" written on them, and you can't ask to have the one you don't pick unfolded. Is there a way for you to avoid death?
Limitations: You can't fight your way out. No wai.

Umineko Section: These are some of the problems from Maria's puzzle book in Umineko no Naku Koro Ni. They aren't that easy, but pale in comparison to the Witch's Epitaph. No knowledge of the story is needed.

1. Cut the Cheese lol!

You have a large piece of cheese. What is the lowest number of slices you can make to cut the cheese into 8 pieces?
Limitations: The cheese can only be cut or separated by a slice from a normal knife, and you can only slice in straight lines. I'll give a rather useless hint: While coming up with the solution, almost all the characters agreed upon a certain statement, that the solution was only possible "because it is cheese. if it was a birthday cake someone would get mad at you." Well, that didn't help me at all.

2. Coins and Cups
There are 6 coins and 3 cups. Split up the coins so that the first cup has 1 coin, the 2nd cup has 2 coins, and the 3rd one has 3 coins. Sounds easy enough? Try it with 5 coins.

by **nullset12** 2010-08-06, 20:48

The ultimate mind puzzle

http://bit.ly/97Bpl

by ZedSlayer 2010-08-06, 21:51

Spoiler:

by **M. Ainsel** 2010-08-06, 22:18

The answer to the certain death one:

Spoiler:

by **kaede** 2010-08-06, 22:54

Spoiler:

by **M. Ainsel** 2010-08-06, 23:13

Don't be taking credit for what Haley thought up.

Mind Puzzles Oots0327

Well powerofpoo the image uploader is being gay. Here's the link to the image http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0327.html

by **Corenat Rovarnus** 2010-08-06, 23:56

lol you aren't supposed to be able to do anything other than asking one of them a question. larry please explain your answer to #3 in greater detail, give an exact number and how to achieve it.

by ZedSlayer 2010-08-07, 00:28

Spoiler:

by **Dave** 2010-08-07, 01:30

nullset12 wrote:The ultimate mind puzzle

http://bit.ly/97Bpl

On the contrary:

THE ultimate mind puzzle.

Just don't die thinking about it.

by **kaede** 2010-08-07, 01:40

You never said what I can and cant do other than ask a single question...And never read that comic but maybe i'll start it looks good.

by ZedSlayer 2010-08-07, 01:55

it is good, its a d&d 3.5 spoof

by **The Lord Kelvin** 2010-08-07, 07:56

......................... these r kinda easy..........

two guards

Spoiler:

certain death

Spoiler:

cut the cheese

Spoiler:

coins and cups

Spoiler:

by **nullset12** 2010-08-07, 09:03

GJ Kelvin

now what about mine? xD

by ZedSlayer 2010-08-07, 09:55

Spoiler:

by **nullset12** 2010-08-07, 10:01

Hey larry ... i think i saw you at germantown library on wednesday.

You were on the middle floor with the manga and stuff.

by **Capitalist Pig** 2010-08-07, 16:56

too lazy to do the first half.

Spoiler:

by **Corenat Rovarnus** 2010-08-07, 17:01

itsame273 wrote:......................... these r kinda easy..........

two guards
Spoiler:
certain death
Spoiler:
cut the cheese
Spoiler:
coins and cups
Spoiler:

I never said the truthteller was guarding the correct path. And sadly all of you have number 3 wrong.

by **Capitalist Pig** 2010-08-07, 17:10

i got number 3 right.

by ZedSlayer 2010-08-07, 17:49

I said it first, @null, yes I was at the germantown library Wednesday

by **The Lord Kelvin** 2010-08-07, 18:19

dun c how my answer for # 3 is wrong........ be more specific wayne, if there r more rules state them...... otherwise 3 straight cuts (all vertical) 8 pieces...... my solution works

by **Corenat Rovarnus** 2010-08-07, 20:07

I asked for the minimum amount, so any answer higher than that may still be physically possible but it's not the right answer, you could say that 4 slices also makes 8 pieces but I'm asking for the LEAST amount. No, its not something gay like decimals. sandow your answer for #3 is also wrong, please note that the cheese can ONLY be cut by a knife.

by **Dave** 2010-08-08, 17:05

Spoiler:

by **Corenat Rovarnus** 2010-08-08, 18:21

gratz, dave has the correct answer to #3. I did not really expect any of you to figure it out, but we have kevin now.

by **Dave** 2010-08-19, 21:36

Ok, so these really aren't "logic" puzzles, but I just discovered this today:

Binary

It doesn't have anything to do at all with binary (other than the "story" I guess you could call it), so don't let that scare you away. It has several puzzles, each with varying degrees of difficulty. One of the levels I would characterize as a 2D rubix cube. None of the puzzles are too hard. I found some puzzles (e.g. the making all the lights the same color) to be unoriginal and too easy. However, there are a few original ones thrown in that are somewhat challenging.

by **Dave** 2010-08-19, 23:54

I've heard that one like 3 times so I probably shouldn't answer.

by **InteroVegas** 2010-08-20, 17:42

With a bit more detail on the cups and coins one I could figure if this answer is right or wrong, it really does depend on what "having the coin" means but here we go anyways:

put 1 coin down, and 1 cup open end facing down over the coin, put 1 coin on top of that cup an stack a second cup, open end down, over the coin and the cup and take 3 coins and put them under/in a 3rd cup separately.

For the cheese question I want to use that idea of flattening, as well as stretching out (not to the point where it falls apart), then fold it over itself 3 times, you get at least 8 slices (im doing this on a dollar bill, and counting the folds and the slices I will get from the cut is truly a pain, but it will be at least 8 after 4 folds.

by **Corenat Rovarnus** 2010-08-20, 18:20

right good, everyone read dave's spoiler solution now. amos you gave the 'standard' umineko answer that only battler and erika were able to glean, which is amazing by itself. basically only 1/6th of a guessing population thinks outside the box.

by ZedSlayer 2010-08-20, 21:16

@ Felix, you mean 5^6.5 billion power, cus thats what I think you're saying, if not, please elaborate

by **Dave** 2010-08-20, 21:19

Spoiler:

by **Corenat Rovarnus** 2010-08-20, 21:57

nice one, it took me a while to figure out how dave got to his answer. I feel stupid now.

by **nullset12** 2010-08-20, 22:02

Larry's answer is a complete fail....

if one doesn't see dave's trick then you would say 6.5 bil times 5 not 5^6.5 bil -.-

by ZedSlayer 2010-08-20, 22:19

ur right, I feel like an idiot, what if someone got his left hand cut off?

by **Corenat Rovarnus** 2010-08-20, 22:55

Captain hook, Dyne, the list goes on and on.

by **M. Ainsel** 2010-08-20, 23:09

Barrett lacks a Right Hand, which last time I checked was not a Left Hand. Gosh, do your research...

by **Corenat Rovarnus** 2010-08-20, 23:23

Did I say barett? I meant dyne, his bff that he killed.

by **InteroVegas** 2010-08-20, 23:54

for the second riddle I want to guess "nothing"

for the first riddle I want to try "I will marry your daughter"

by **M. Ainsel** 2010-08-21, 00:06

Spoiler:

by **kaede** 2010-08-21, 00:07

I'm going to say "Your daughter is beautiful" for the first question.

by **M. Ainsel** 2010-08-21, 00:10

Hmmm, creative way to avoid death, but doesn't guarantee you get the daughter and not the Diamonds or the Council Seat.

by **kaede** 2010-08-21, 00:11

Well me personally i'll take the diamonds because you know what they say about diamonds and women.

by **Corenat Rovarnus** 2010-08-21, 00:13

same thing about dogs and men. Razz

by **M. Ainsel** 2010-08-21, 00:15

Yeah but he could just give you the council seat...

And I think I know that saying about women, but I think it only applies to women who like things that are shiny, transparent, and hard.

by **Xenoe** 2010-08-21, 00:18

Your Richard is none of those Micheal, so stop wishing.

by **Corenat Rovarnus** 2010-08-21, 00:18

Yeah, like- lol no I have standards.

by **M. Ainsel** 2010-08-21, 00:20

Well did I get the answer right?

by **kaede** 2010-08-21, 00:21

True I'd just trade em for cash/gold. I'm not the kinda girl who likes jewelry.

by **InteroVegas** 2010-08-21, 01:02

for the sultan one though, doesn't saying "or die" therefore guarantee you will not die, meaning that it was indeed not true because the option wasn't actually going occur in the first place. And if that doesn't counter the argument , simply because he says he will marry the sultans daughter or die does not mean the sultan can't just deny the man the sultans daughter. He is a sultan, so this is a monarchy, so he can deny the man his daughters hand in marriage making, so yes the man will get the treasure or the council seat, but it does not mean he will get to marry the daughter.

In better terms it is possibly false because he may not marry the daughter and instead get one of the other 2 rewards and not die, meaning neither of the two clauses are fulfilled meaning the statement is possibly false.

by **M. Ainsel** 2010-08-21, 01:17

No no no, this is how it works:

There are no ways to make my statement false without disobeying the rules of the puzzle. The Sultan can't give me the Council Seat or the Diamonds without making "I will marry your daughter" false and then being forced to kill me, in which case the other part of my statement comes in "or die". Then the statement is rendered true, meaning he can't kill me. The parameters of the puzzle say that I must wind up with one of the three rewards or death. If the Sultan chooses the rewards I don't want, the puzzle goes into Limbo and can never end, which means the Diamond and Council choices are impossible.

by **InteroVegas** 2010-08-21, 01:38

Xenoe wrote:Not what if, there are.
Here is another one, a young man in ancient Arabia wants to marry the daughter of a Sultan, but the Sultan is furious and wants him to be executed but cannot do so fearing his reputation will be lost, so he makes the young man an offer.
If you can make an absolutely true statement then you can receive either my daughter, a chest of diamonds, or a position within my council, but I will get to choose which one you receive.
If there is any possibility that your statement is false, you will be instantly put to death.
What can the young man say to get the certainly princess's hand in marriage and avoid death?

It says the man will receive one of those things, it is never said he can't be killed as well, so even if his being killed turns out true, he will be killed.

you said "or die" well the only point at which that can become true is when he is dead, at which point he is incapable of marrying the women. even if you say "condemned to death" or whatever, it will happen. There is no part in this argument that states he will either die or receive the reward. It is two if statements, not a if else. : P that is indeed solid reasoning.

In short, after the second if triggers, he will be instantly put to death BUT nothing says that just because his statement is true that he WON'T die.

Kevin harrison is making a much better explanation of what I am trying to say. We worked on it jointly and got all the reasoning done, well more like he developed it and I donated the base material.

by **Dave** 2010-08-21, 02:58

nullset12 wrote:Larry's answer is a complete fail....

if one doesn't see dave's trick then you would say 6.5 bil times 5 not 5^6.5 bil -.-

Actually, I am afraid I must come to ZedSlayer's aid in this case. The original problem stated:

Xenoe wrote:What would you estimate to be the result, if you multiply together the number of fingers on every person's left-hands?

Thus, if we assume there are five people on the planet, each with five fingers on their left hands, the result would be 5*5*5*5*5 or 5^5. With 6.5 billion people, the answer would be 5^6.5 billion. Not 5 * 6.5 billion.

---

On another note, I do not believe Michael's argument constitutes as satisfying the sultan riddle.
There is an ambiguous OR in Michael's answer which can be taken to be either an inclusive or (_ AND/OR _) or an exclusive or (EITHER _ OR _). I will examine both possible meanings of his answer.

The Exclusive OR
----------------
Most people use exclusive ORs in conversation. Thus, I am going to start with this kind of OR. If Michael means he is going to EITHER marry the sultan's daughter OR die then the statement is patently false. Michael, unless he is immortal, will still die. Because his statement is not absolutely true, he will thus be immediately killed. Or, you can, if you desire, take it one step further than this. You can say "because Michael will be immediately killed, his statement will be absolutely true; he will not marry the daughter and he will die". Well congratulations, you have not found a solution to the riddle, you have found a paradox.

The Inclusive OR
----------------
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Michael meant the OR to be inclusive. Thus he means that he will marry the daughter AND/OR die. The statement is absolutely true (unless you believe in immortality, in which case this statement is false (EDIT: I mean to say can be false) and we end up with a paradox). However, just because this statement is absolutely true, does not mean that Michael will get to marry the daughter. The sultan could just give him the bag of diamonds as a reward, thus not satisfying the riddle.

Let me know if I am missing something obvious, but I don't see any proper answer to this riddle.

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