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question for our experts: Archer vs. Gilgamesh in UBW

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Post by ZedSlayer on 2010-07-20, 02:51

Archer vs. Gilgamesh in UBW
who would win

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Post by nullset12 on 2010-07-20, 07:14

I believe that archer would win due to superior knowledge of weaponary use and combat.

Shiro was doing pretty well against gil at the end of ubw so i think archer could easily destroy him.

As stated in the vn, they are natural enemies.
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Post by The Lord Kelvin on 2010-07-20, 11:51

also in ubw, archer would have an infinite amount of weapons, whereas gil only has as much as is left inside his gates of babylon
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Post by ZedSlayer on 2010-07-20, 14:29

doesn't he have unlimited weapons in Gates of Babylon anyways, and couldn't Archer trace Gates of Babylon? Is that possible?

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Post by kaede on 2010-07-20, 15:00

From Fuyuki wiki:

Gate of Babylon - The King's Treasure
Spoiler:
The key-like sword (which is the Noble Phantasm itself, not the vault) to enter the golden capital of Gilgamesh. It opens a portal in space that allows him to take out the items inside as he pleases. Goes without saying that the more wealth he has, the stronger a Noble Phantasm this is. Weapons in it can be thrown out like projectiles or taken out normally. Strictly speaking, the weapons inside it aren't Noble Phantasms but the prototypes of them, or one way of putting it, nameless/fameless Noble Phantasms. The most dangerous thing for other Servants though is as Gilgamesh has most of the weapons that became Noble Phantasms in his vault, most often he'll have a weapon that had been their weakness when they have been alive.
Rank: E-A++ (of course Ea is also in the Gate so technically he does have one EX weapon in it)
Type: Anti-personnel


Unlimited Blade Works - Mugen no Kensei

Spoiler:
Treated like a Noble Phantasm, but to be accurate, it's thaumaturgy. Able to use a Reality Marble, with no penalties. Exactly what are those penalties? Who knows.

In this Reality Marble, the substances needed to form all swords are present. Just by looking at the original, it is possible to replicate it. However, the replicated weapon is lowered by one rank. Defensive armaments are possible but the normal projection cost is two to three times the regular amount of Prana used in making swords. A weapon replicated once is recorded in the barrier and can be made without activating the Reality Marble using tracing thaumaturgy.

Against a normal opponent, it's only an ability that's somewhat troublesome, but it's the ultimate counter against a certain king of heroes.

The substances involved in the creation of Ea are probably not inside it; Ea wasn't possible to analyze. Creation of Excalibur is possible, but not a perfect version of it. It's also likely that using its energy blast would result in him using up all of his Prana, hence it would be a suicide attack for him, which is why he never traces it even just as a normal weapon; his personally developed close-combat technique with his twin swords is better suited for him and Shirou (although raw power might be less).

For Emiya Shirou, whose life had been saved by a sword and who actually merged together and lived with a sword, his body wouldn't be the type that would destroy itself from sword-making.

As to weather archer can trace the gate possibly not because the materials are unknown or like ea are not from this world. And if he could I don't think he can recreate the ability of the gate.
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Post by nullset12 on 2010-07-20, 17:52

I don't believe gate of babylon falls under shiro's reality marble. Its not really a sword like weapon rather its a "container".

In addition, gate of babylon would be useless as gil needed to stock it first with weapons. archer would trace it as an original without any weapons.

IN ADDITION , like kaede said, gate of babylon is not made from materials from this world so tracing it is impossible.

But either way, he has unlimited weapons.
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Post by InteroVegas on 2010-07-20, 17:56

that doesn't totally answer who wins, also do gilgamesh's items go back into the vault, or do they just get left around the place?
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Post by kaede on 2010-07-20, 18:30

They go back into the vault when gil wants them to. But you have to take into consideration that there are not only weapons inside the vault but a flying machine(seen being used against zero berserker who turned a F-15 jet ito his NP), a bomb (not sure about this just heard that there may be a bomb in there) and numerous other items.
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Post by ZedSlayer on 2010-07-20, 20:20

gil's whole concept is that he owned everything in the world once, which includes bombs and he has it in gates of babylon, so yeah he probably does have a bomb in there somewhere

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Post by Corenat Rovarnus on 2010-07-20, 21:14

none of the sources ever mention what sort of material the key sword is made of. Assuming it were possible for Archer to trace it, it would still be useless because he does not actually own any noble phantasms so his vault would be empty. In a battle, it depends on the circumstances. Archer's cautiousness would usually have him use long range indirect strikes to avoid extra trouble if he were allowed to optimize the situation, but Gil can simply intercept or counter(in the case of hrunting it would need to be destroyed to prevent homing in) with his own ability. This is proven possible for both sides, as shiro was able to knock gil's shots away by firing his own swords. A long range battle would be indecisive. Gil could always use Ea or a similar Anti-Fortress NP, but due to True Eye of the Mind Archer could be concealed from Gil's line of fire, or be using a decoy or some other trick. In melee combat however Archer would almost always win, because although he doesn't have the best fighting style or skills, he's still more practiced and almost certainly better than Gil in swordplay. The reason saber was having a difficult time in that final battle in Fate route despite her arguably best combat skills was that she did not have an Archer class method of intercepting GoB shots and so was split between gil's untrained strikes and blocking those deadly NPs.
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Post by ZedSlayer on 2010-07-21, 00:22

also, the only weapon that gil won't get rammed up his ass in melee is Ea

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Post by nullset12 on 2010-07-21, 07:48

Wayne has the best argument here

In reality, archer is unable to do anything unrelated to his reality marble. Thus, he cannot trace/reinforce anything not sword related.
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Post by ZedSlayer on 2010-07-21, 08:48

ok

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Post by Corenat Rovarnus on 2010-07-21, 21:22

well gilgamesh could make him drunk with all the wine he has in there via sabotage.
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Post by nullset12 on 2010-07-21, 22:07

lol - how is that even possible xD
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Post by ZedSlayer on 2010-07-21, 22:28

hes Gil, "don't ask stupid questions, mongrel" is what hed say if you asked that to his face

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Post by kaede on 2010-07-21, 23:36

Actually wouldnt he fling a sword through a random bodypart then say "don't ask stupid questions, mongrel"?
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Post by ZedSlayer on 2010-07-22, 14:42

yeah

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Post by Corenat Rovarnus on 2012-03-28, 13:47

WE'RE AN OFFICIAL SOURCE FOR SPANISH FSN FANS
http://www.mcanime.net/foro/viewtopic.php?p=6653935
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Post by Zhu Yang on 2012-03-28, 20:30

An Empire is born.
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