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No god does not exist just because science works

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No god does not exist just because science works Empty No god does not exist just because science works

Post by InteroVegas on 2010-09-12, 21:57

GOD IS NOT PROVED BY SAYING SCIENCE WORKS
http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html
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No god does not exist just because science works Empty Re: No god does not exist just because science works

Post by Corenat Rovarnus on 2010-09-13, 11:59

"He did what people can't do." Blind crippled and deaf people can be cured, dead people can be brought back to life with modern science.

"He performed miracles over nature...walked on top of a lake, commanding a raging storm to stop for some friends."
"None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. "
Pretty arrogant, isn't he. You'd think being the humble person he's supposed to be, he'd follow the the laws of conservation and surface tension limits.
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Post by InteroVegas on 2010-09-13, 17:43

Its a level 15 Dark Fanatic, prerequisite at least 5 levels as an Athiest and must either be convinced of the existence of god or in some way or other changed his way to believe in god.
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Post by nullset12 on 2010-09-13, 18:00

Where did you get these levels from...
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Post by InteroVegas on 2010-09-13, 18:29

its a joke, you need some pretty decent nerd background knowledge to understand
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Post by ZedSlayer on 2010-09-13, 18:34

I get it

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Post by Capitalist Pig on 2010-09-13, 18:35

*sigh*
Read the Da Vinci Code.
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Post by InteroVegas on 2010-09-13, 18:39

no, this has to do with DnD
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Post by nullset12 on 2010-09-13, 19:07

Power levels aren't in the davinci code -.-
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Post by InteroVegas on 2010-09-13, 19:08

again its more of an inside joke that has to do with divine power and dieties
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Post by ZedSlayer on 2010-09-13, 21:48

it's the 3 ed. multi-classing/prestige class system

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Post by nullset12 on 2010-09-13, 22:38

=.= idk ...
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Post by ZedSlayer on 2010-09-13, 22:44

yeah, it requires some nerd background knowledge

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Post by M. Ainsel on 2010-09-13, 23:04

Oh Shiz, this topic was tailored made to get my attention wasn't it? Here we go.

The whole idea with God is that you have to be faithful that being a good person will lead you to better afterlife. Wether or not you believe in God, the ultimate fact of the matter is that people can be brutal to each other, and no sane person on this planet would think that setting up a system that gives guildlines on how to be a good person is a evil thing. And yes I know reilgious power has and is causing a lot of unsavory people to rise up into power, but if you think the goal of the Torah and the Bible are anything other than to teach people what you should do then you are horribly mistaken and probably paranoid. What does it mean to be a good person? Each monotheistic religon and it's sub groups will give you a different answer, just pick your favorite. What makes most atheists offensive is that they deny god exists as a way to say "I don't believe in the concept of goodness, life sucks so my actions need no justification, no matter how amoral I act". Amos I know you aren't like that, why not just say agnostic, that way the message you convey to religious people is that you know people should be moral and kind to each other, but you are confused on exactly what defines good.

Oh and by the way, yes you are right, saying god exists because science works is a very poor argument.


Last edited by ZedSlayer on 2010-09-13, 23:23; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : lol, Micheal failz at spelling)
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Post by InteroVegas on 2010-09-14, 00:25

Religion does enforce morals and good behavior towards one another, but, the orthodox, the fanatical, the strictly religious of these religions are not the best of people. And I find the idea of a better afterworld to be a direct insult and openly calls life bad.
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Post by M. Ainsel on 2010-09-14, 11:02

No, orthodox people are normal people, the fanatics are the problem people. Crashing civilian planes into civilian towers in order to do nothing than just kill civilians is by no means approved by God. War in general is looked down upon by the Bible, although sometimes it is sadly a necessity for self defense (our recent wars are not an example of that). The situation in the Middle East is sad, the clerics over there aren't doing their real job, they're acting like Scientologists and just brainwashing people for their own gain.
And in case you were talking about less extreme examples, yes people who are devoted to God can be complete assholes. Worship alone doesn't make someone good by any means.

I don't really see how its an insult to be promised a good afterlife for good deeds. Take a trip to Mexico, the Caribbean, Africa, etc, and you'll see people there who are hopelessly poor and have no hope of ever rising up to a better life style. I saw this when I went to Nassau, there were people begging on the streets, and it was difficult to eat your sandwich at a tourist deli as a dozen natives watch you in sad envy. Then you see the police officers: fat, content, and generally mean to the civilians. You can guess where all the money goes in this system, straight up to the top. To ad insult to injury, the wealthy part of Nassau is just celebrity mansions that are used as getaway homes by Oprah and Tom Cruise and the like (I didn't make those names up), and a giant hotel named Atlantis. This place has no justice, if your born poor you stay poor, if your born oppressed you stay oppressed. Life is bad here, and the temptation to be a bad person (like stealing your neighbors food rations every day) is very powerful. Take this into account before you say that a better afterlife is insulting.
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Post by InteroVegas on 2010-09-14, 11:13

So either heaven is being used as a bribe or as an insult to life being bad?

The orthodox are very problematic at least in Islam and Judiasm
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Post by Corenat Rovarnus on 2010-09-14, 12:12

Its the promise of a good afterlife that those poor people do nothing and remain being poor, where all they had to do was get a few of their buddies and rob the deli or some restaurant to eat every day, those fat police officers couldn't reach their cars fast enough. Sure, tourism profits would go down, the country'd have to spend more on security(and usually failing, US tried that and people just got more pissed), but then poor people aren't exactly benefiting from tourism and those countries suck anyway. I thought Tom Cruise wasn't a star anymore, lol.
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Post by M. Ainsel on 2010-09-14, 12:28

@Corenat Rovarnus wrote:I thought Tom Cruise wasn't a star anymore, lol.
Yeah but that doesn't stop him from having a bunch of money from movies and the Church of Scientology.
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Post by Corenat Rovarnus on 2010-09-14, 12:38

he should be the pope of scientology, that way when he loses his money and fame the church won't withdraw their support like they did with Muhammad Ali.
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Post by M. Ainsel on 2010-09-30, 20:38

Revived this topic because Amos was being a b1tch about this during lunch a couple of times (same with Jake)

Amos & Jake go watch the movie Contact. Its about humans receiving contact from an Alien species (no the Aliens are not Christian or jewish, or even religious). I think this movie speaks my argument for me.
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Post by ZedSlayer on 2010-09-30, 21:36

I don't want to go in the cart

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Post by InteroVegas on 2010-09-30, 21:43

wait wait, before I even go into this, are you going to connect aliens to super natural to god?

If I bothered to go see it 1 or 2 of the following would happen most likely:

1) I find it bs, and the movie carried your point no where

2) I find it has some real life value, and then point out that:
a) Aliens are not supernatural, they would be another species, meaning they are natural things.
b) If you tried to carry the point of the super natural proving god, then fail, that is going backwards to prove things, yes it would be saying there is a possibility, but if you are going to use the possibility idea then anything is possible. Aside from that, aliens don't prove god.

Then more so, Christianity is a huge load of bs, as jake went searching on google for records of jesus (and he looked through multiple edu sites) and he found that there no records from the supposed time that jesus existed that would prove his existence (I personally believe he existed, but that he was just an ordinary person). At least try to argue for a religion that doesn't jack its crap from a different religion. Go argue for Judaism, or Islam, or Hinduism, or even some Pagan religion, not a religion that was founded by a second person, about a first person, that USES a pre-existing religion as its base. Abraham was the first practitioner of multiple basics of his religion (Yes I am aware that there a number of current day rules that he did not practice, kosher food being one of them. However a large portion of those rules are rules made by the rabbinical system in Israel long after Abraham, (And I personally find those addendums to be some bs)). Muhammad was the first practitioner of Islam. IF Jesus did exist, then he DIDN'T EVEN PRACTICE CHRISTIANITY, he would have been practicing JUDAISM. The new testament, is not valid proof for anything pertaining to Jesus, it would be the most biased text on Jesus that exists.

Oh btw while I am at it - The part where religions take parts of their religion and say "oh well they are really metaphors" is a load of BULLSH1T. The previous people honestly believed that the world was made in 7 days, but when science comes along and shows some data that suggests the near impossibility of that (I use the term near impossibility because you would most likely argue everything is possible) religions don't want to look retarded so they try to change up the general meaning of the text.
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Post by ZedSlayer on 2010-09-30, 21:58

I find your entire thesis supported only marginally. After point 2 you started ranting.

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Post by InteroVegas on 2010-09-30, 22:00

It wasn't support to a thesis. It was a bunch of 1 line stabs at Christianity.

I'd have to go through a books size of elaboration and examples and conceptual points to support that thesis. And my English skills are not great.


Last edited by Darkgenesis on 2010-09-30, 22:01; edited 1 time in total
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Post by jakethekoenig on 2010-09-30, 22:01

Can you either summarize that movie or post a link. Thank you.

And I would say that any organization that makes unquestioning devotion a virtue is inherently evil. And I don't need an organization that believes in undisprovable stuff to teach my morality. Morality is a scientific pursuit. All I have to do is sum up all the emotions in terms of magnitude of every sentient creature involved to determine the relative merit of a situation. I find religions employ an absolutist view of morality where as the only coherent definitions of morality involve a consequential approach.

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Post by ZedSlayer on 2010-09-30, 22:03

neither of which I appreciate, this is not the place for religious arguments.
@ Jake, I agree that morality is a personal choice however I believe in a higher power than myself.
before this turns into a jihadist spam war,I'm going to lock it, any problems with that?

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Post by InteroVegas on 2010-09-30, 22:11

Although absolute devotion to any single thing is bad. It does teach commitment. ALTHOUGH, the absolute devotion to that subject or religion, is not good. And although Jake does argue (and argue well at that) a large amount of problems with religion, there are some good things. HOWEVER, many of these are common to all religions, and the religions having these morals and important messages does not out weigh their negative aspects (although that is just my opinion). No Killing and no stealing and important morals like those existed before Christianity, before Islam and before Judaism.

Also I want to remark that religions are far past their times. Finding common day applications for religion is not appropriate. These rules were made in mind for the day and age they were created in. You can make generalizations to try to find similarities, but like any piece of writing, it is written in mind for a certain purpose a certain audience (and no, that audience is not all humans who will ever exist). People can have all the important morals and restrictions that religion carries, except without the belief in some illogical, fantastical being or set of beings. The religions and the messages they have in them were made by Humans, so Humans can have these messages without the religions. Math is not out of date, it never will be, because numbers are figures in our head, they are ideas, not physically present things, they are abstract methods, not methods that were turned abstract so that they could still function later on in human civilization. It is not like addition was originally 5+2=7 and then got changed to X+Y=Z. Judaism changed their rule of no fire on shabbat to no using electricity on shabbat, so that it could be applicable in modern day society, and that is a change that misrepresented the reason for the rule. Islams rules about women wearing face covers and headdresses is considered ridiculous by those who are not Islam who live in this day and age.
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Post by ZedSlayer on 2010-09-30, 22:21

moving to dead spam

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